Mar 6, 2009 - women    99 Comments

Subliminal mindfuck

Just when you think that you are jaded beyond imagination and you have seen it all, people in the land of pure would come up with something more shocking that will make you forget the good, the bad and the downright ugly from your past. With the arrival of Woman’s day, a group which calls itself ‘Women and Family Commission’ has put up some banners on the streets of Karachi. The message in those banners is subversive and it calls for women to NOT work and stay at home. One of the banners says that the quota for women’s employment is tantamount to increasing the number of children who will spend their days without their mother’s attention. Another one says that 50% quota in jobs for women is infringement of men’s rights and my personal favorite is the last one which says, employment is not the solution to the problems of women.

The subliminal message of the banner is that women need not to work, it will not solve their problems and they are actually infringing upon the rights of male members of society by leaving their homes and seeking gainful employment. The message also piles up the guilt on the mothers who leave their children behind to work that their children are being raised motherless. This hidden message is more lethal than open objection to movement and liberty of women as it guilts them into staying at home for their children.

I request the City Government of Karachi in general and Naib Nazima (Deputy Mayor) who is a working woman, in particular, to get these banners removed as soon as possible.


Pictures taken at Do Talwar, Clifton, Karachi

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99 Comments

  • Ohh yes I saw one banner near park towers today only…..and it made me think if the commission, as they call itself, against the women or favor them.

    Am confused. I feel they are taliban in disguise……waise to auraton ne ander jana nahi ghar k so aise bhej do 🙂

  • Yes, it’s always the subliminal messages that are the most dangerous. I’ve always thought that it’s easier to fight very obviously cruel and violent atrocities than it is to fight this insiduous soft fuzzy confused attitudes.

    There was a good write-up about you and your articles for Dawn in the Asian Age. Bravo!

  • that’s pathetic to say the least!!!

  • They should put up such stuff for men! I would totally stay home and blame it on the poster!

  • sigh. the karachi nazim just be mailed/called/contacted about this.

  • Wonder why one can’t sue such a%$#0!s for discrimination in this country.

    Don’t let them work. Don’t let them go out. Don’t let them study. Don’t let them eat meat.

    We’re seriously ahead in the competition for the worst country for women.

  • “the hidden message is more lethal…”

    certainly… and backward women are going to raise backward children… half of them will be backward men…

    had a short post regarding women… thought it’s not very strong…
    now think i’ll put it up one of these days… it’s better than nothing…
    😉
    we should talk, shouldn’t we?
    😀

  • We have a school principal in a local school who only admits kids whose moms don’t work. Considering she does and has kids of her own, I wonder what that means!

  • how the fuck they can put up banners without permission and that too with such a idiotic ideology…

  • i have been reading your blog silently for sometime and its always a great experience.

    On this all i can say is this organization ‘Women and Family Commission’ maybe fake with other religious parties behind it.

  • I blogrolled you on my blog, I hope that is ok. Am on virtualityforreal.blogspot.com

  • Hi Tazeen,
    I got it right this time. I was using TazNeen because well it sounded so very easy to my mind and ear!!!Well Tazeen, somehow doesnot sound nice to Indian ears.
    I never knew you will be so agitated about banners with messages against your views.Come on Tazeen, they have every right to propagate their views however anachronistic it may be to you.
    That is why politics is so very difficult because it is women who feel that way because they feel it is written in Holy Quoran.

  • from your post on Karachi metroblog

    I request the City Government of Karachi in general and Naib Nazima (Deputy Mayor) who is a working woman, in particular to get these banners removed as soon as possible

    grow up Tazeen, At one side you continue to whine against Talibans and their imposed views and their lack of sense about freedom and on other hand you are being an Urban Taliban who is willing to shut others mouth. Is this what you learnt at Manchester? Thankfully I do know a sane practiced Muslim lady who graduated from Manchester otherwise I was losing trust on that university after getting engaged with few graduates.

    The banner is right. Why don’t you come up with logical points to refute it? Job is really not the solution of ALL problems regardless of gender discrimination.

  • Mr. Adnan,

    I think it was a very grown up request. Your freedom of speech ends where it infringes on my rights. Such subliminal messaging is detrimental to the basic liberty of a human being which is guaranteed in Article 25 of the constitution of Pakistan, if I ask for that, then I am not only a grown up citizen, but also a concerned and informed citizen.

  • Adnan,

    And I agree with you, employment is not the answer to all the problems but it stands for both men and women, not just women.

    Its about time women are treated as human beings.

  • this is just dreadful. MOST countries have laws about what you can and can’t put up on public spaces so this isn’t just a simple free speech issue, even if we are to assume that free speech in Pakistan is an operational concept (which it isn’t).

  • isn there a serious flaw in their plan??? lol…

    anyhu.. interestin !

    tho… i guess men and women should hav equal opportunities at jobs rather than quotas… but then they shud b treated equally when they apply… and i wish there were more women geeks and engineers around me… lol

  • Tazeen,

    Every one, I repeat every one has right to express his/her concern. You missed the point(deliberately I think) that these protesters have right to voice their opinion. the civilized society you guys praise most of the time , will not condemn these protests anyway. This is called biased freedom or in desi words called Doghla Pan. If you are against them then try to choose a civilized path, go and talk to them and tell them why are you against them. Learn to listen them that why are they willing to sit at home. This is how things work in civilized society. ASking to ban something is just like molvis give fatwas against any other thing they dislike and sometimes they don’t even explain it. we are living under the dictatorship of a corrupt man but it does not mean we also start acting like him.


    Its about time women are treated as human beings.

    Sorry to burst your bubble but in reality a woman is abuse more by another woman. A woman is burnt by another woman(Saas). Its a woman who forces a son to marry another woman. It’s a woman try to trap a man despite of she knows he’s married. So,in reality women are mistreated more by other women. bitter but true.

    On other hand , being a working lady does not mean you are earning more respect. Is it not Ironic that such ladies get pissed if their husbands say something against them but happily obey the orders of several strangers at office and even happily listen whatever the crap they say?

    Such women will consider it an attack on their freedom if they are asked to stay for a while in kitchen and serve the family but would happily serve hundreds of men in an airline by giving fake smiles.

    is it not true that such freedom lover women whine if their husbands or other male elders try to tell them something and they consider it an attack against their “Izzat” yet get ready to exploit themselves in the name of liberalism and media publicity.

    It sounds so romantic to me.Someone must redefine Irony please?

  • Adnan,

    I don’t know what kind of people you interact with but you need to get rid of archaic notions of honour and redefine them. If a woman gets mistreated by her husband, thats honor but if she goes out of her house, earn an honest pay, that somehow diminishes her honor.

    The example of an airhostess is absolute crap. Please refuse to be treated by an air hostess next time you travel. And what is the percentage of women who work and cook what percentage of women work as stewardess. Get your head out of the dark crevice where you have hidden it. It might do you some good.

  • and i preferred to focus more on the lux billboard on hilal e ahmer…

  • Tez,

    Yet another WTF!!! moment… I am getting too old to comment on shit like this! There’s just so many things wrong with the posters and the mindset behind it… It’s just sad, pathetic and stupid.

    -Zoobee

  • There is a difference between freedom of speech, and disruptive, offensive speech.

    That, my friend, is not protected by any constitution

  • No it’s not crap.The point is that so called freedom lover happily offer themselves to get offended by others but whine if someone (for any Goddamn reason) say something at home. may be it’s due to “Ghar ki Murghi Daal barabar”


    Get your head out of the dark crevice where you have hidden it. It might do you some good.

    🙂 I am not complaining that some group of people protest about something. If you hate Talibans then do getrid of a Taliban which is in you. That’s all I say.

    have fun and enjoy the lovely Weekend.

    @Sarem: There is no offensive in these banner. If one starts considering it offensive just because he does not like it then it’s not fair.. this is sign of extremism and this thing doesn’t work in West which is more referred today than Quran and Hadith.

  • Mr. Adnan writes:
    “”The banner is right.””

    Crap.

    “”Is it not Ironic that such ladies get pissed if their husbands say something against them but happily obey the orders of several strangers at office and even happily listen whatever the crap they say?””

    In office there is something called ‘seniority’. A person whether its a man/woman has to listen to those senior to his/her in rank in professional matters.
    But in a marriage or in any relationship BOTH ARE EQUAL.
    Mindless criticism is certainly not welcome.

    Mr. Adnan writes:

    “”such freedom lover women whine if their husbands or other male elders try to tell them something and they consider it an attack against their “Izzat”””

    Dude, what do u mean by “”husbands or other male elders””??

    Husbands are somehow ‘elder’ than their wives??

    And as far as Air Hostess profession is concerned, thats just a profession .Serving guests on a flight are just a part of their Job.

  • Adnan writes

    “It’s a woman try to trap a man despite of she knows he’s married”

    You havenot said anything about the MAN who is equally guilty.

    No one can ‘trap’ u, unless u wanna get ‘trapped’ in such matters

  • I don’t get whats subliminal about these messages – pretty direct and in your face as far as I can see.

    Also, although I completely disagree with their message, I don’t think they should be disallowed to broadcast it. I doubt you or any other liberal minded person would object to banners that stated the opposite. Its an opinion, and they are allowed to hold it and express it. Freedom of speech and all that – I know thats an ideal which only really applies in a real democracy, but in principle I don’t agree with that kind of convenient censorship.

    However much you or I disagree with their *opinion* we can’t tell them to keep it to themselves unless we’re willing to keep ours likewise.

  • now I wonder if any of these retard champions of free speech on this thread would support a giant danish cartoon banner outside do talwar

  • It’s ironic that the group calls itself “Women and the Family Commission” given that their views are such that would put any woman out of commission except in the stereotypical role that is defined for them. Since when did woman and family stand on opposite sides of the fence; this is one lop sided view to say the least. However, it is a view point of one section of Lahorian society and it has a right to be heard; whether it gets acknowledged and acted upon will depend on the education/awareness levels of the populace.

  • ain’t it wonderful how the wrong are busy proving to the world they are right…funnily they believe in the stuff also

    am not sure where they get their education from…but thats the bloody root of all problems…that is where we must attack

  • mindfuck indeed…..

    You know Tazeen, given your obvious comfort with satire… and the Dawn posts… why don’t you write something which would really shake up the barmy old coots…

    A short story or a novella perhaps…in a country which “is and is not Pakistan” (as Rushdie wrote in “Shame”)

  • @adnan
    please,all this silly freedom of speech thing is HIGHLY overrated…if this is not a civilized protest i don’t know what is!
    it is those men who don’t let their women out of their homes that pose problems to women who do work,as for problems,living in a country like ours(i do still love my country although this exercise is proving to be a bit too much for me since i have stepped into the practical world as they call it still i would call myself a patriot)…a woman needs a decent job as much as any man,i have seen people say that women should only work when they “need” it!!define need,we are human beings too,we have dreams too,to be something to make something out of our lives,in these times women actually run families(they just choose to work outside home to earn more instead of sitting at home and stitching /carving ,thus subjecting themselves to abject poverty),when our husbands and male members of the family support us i just hate the men who make life hell for women like us “just because” they think we don’t belong!

    i am against quotas, specifically these extra seats for women,if they have teh skills and talent they shouldn’t be marginalized,they should get a fair chance at the career of their choice,true i have met abt 80% girls in my engineering course who said they were there only to get a degree,and never intended to work,and then they bring up all stupid excuses like children,husband etc,matching the mentality of the very people who put these idiotic banners up….i am against their education in such colleges because yes when they have no intention of working what they are doing is usurping the rights of men,but there are women here who have worked hard for it and who are willing to go that extra mile to make sure they make it!so it is wrong for anybody man or woman to state what a woman “should or should not” do…every woman is an individual just like a man,to each her own.

    an advice to girls who get into professional institutes just so that they can frame their degrees and impress their in-laws…>take your lazy bum out of low-fee good professional institutes and pay for your laziness and lack of ambition in some pvt institute.

    an advice to men who think they know all the problems of women and their solutions…>you are from mars, go back!

  • oo! i stirred few minds here. Interesting 😀

    @Mr.India: Even Tazeen admits that Job is not the solution of all problems then why are you cursing me? *grin*

    @Rabia: tsk tsk. Calling names will not prove your point anyway. That’s what I tried to tell Tazeen too.


    please,all this silly freedom of speech thing is HIGHLY overrated…if this is not a civilized protest i don’t know what is!

    @Saba Ali: I kind of agree but.. those women also protesting in civilized manner. They also have just put banners in city rather than damaging public property like MQM or IJT or PPP guys. Did these women put a piston on Tazeen’s head and forced her NOT to go at office? it didn’t happen like that. So it’s tazeen who is creating a hype here. If tazeen thinks she is right then she and her friends could place banners against these banners. Who stops her?

    The way tazeen acted like Molvis and asked to “SHUT EVERYTHING”, it gives impression that she considers her point of view very weak and she knows she can not convince others that’s why she is asking to take such extreme step.

    for rest of your comment, i do agree but it;s not relevant here. I already stated that I am not against women who work but it does not mean I go against those who do not want to work.

    p.s: A request from All! do read comments before replying to anyone . Just throwing up here is not going to make you any better.

  • @adnan
    well my apologies, if you aren’t against women who work then i suppose this should be the end of discussion.

    if i understand correctly what you think you are trying to do is protect the freedom of speech which btw is a load of crap invented to piss other people off after you have intentionally crossed your limits(welcome to the free world where no one gives a shit!)

    many of us have fallen prey to this freedom of speech mantra the media has been infinitely thrusting down our throats,although we who claim to be muslims know full well that courtesy and good character are an integral part of our religion,but these days being stupid and uncouth are highly appreciated traits as they totally depict how cool a person is with his ignorance.i suppose accepting oneself for one is,is a good thing but why on earth do people have to be so irritating!

    the cartoons of the holy prophet (pbuh) was an extremely pathetic way to seek attention and yes in my view extremely wrong(freedom of speech experts can eat their hearts out),and what we should have done was protest in a civilised manner although civility in our nation is kind of hard to find,where people are so frustrated they only need an excuse to take it out,if they have to exploit religion so be it…
    anyways not to digress,point is tazeen has every right to speak her mind,and you have every right to object, as long as neither of you gets personal no problem,what you cannot object to is “her right to object”,of which you obviously have no right(notice you are doing the same thing that you accuse tazeen here of doing) ,you have something to say about the issue,feel free,you have something to say about tazeen’s personal choice,not done!u see where i am getting at? personally I think it is something about her tone that upsets you since you said you personally don’t believe in the content of those banners yourself,if you aren’t “for” the content you must be “against” it,which puts you and tazeen in the same spot which gets me wondering why you chose to accuse tazeen of anything in the first place….hmmm…again if it’s freedom of speech that has impelled you to make accusations here then what you are doing here is no different,and this is how some arguments go on forever even when two people have the same stance.and I need to shutup..lol

  • ooh…just one small lil thing…when those banners explicitly state that women are usurping the rights of men by working and making women feel guilty of leaving their children(as if those house wives who order their servants around all day are any better at paying attention),what they are doing is speaking “against” women who “do” work…i am also not against women who don’t work,that is called “freedom of choice” but when you stand “with” those who are “against” women who work that makes you seem like you are against it too.

    but since you aren’t against women who work you should have supported tazeen’s stance which no where states that all women “should” work..but should a woman choose to work the rest of the world should shutup as it is no concern of theirs.

  • I think you are getting confused, Saba Ali.


    you said you personally don’t believe in the content of those banners yourself

    The banner says that job is not the solution of all Women Problem. I do agree with 100%. even Tazeen does and there is no 2nd thought from my side.

    I 100% agree with you about so called freedom of speech but mame, the freedom of speech song is usually sung by those who are anti-Taliban(like Tazeen) because Talibs also had some reasons to oppose/ban something, the reason they could not propagate properly or whatever. If talibs are hated for such traits then Tazeen is also copying them. What’s the difference between banning women education and banning such banners? I don’t find any difference in both mindsets other than one has implemented and other has not. I am damn sure that If Tazeen had power, she would have taken action against these banners. Now this is what I disagree and this is what is called Talibanization.

    And kindly don’t compare the cartoon issue with this one. Cartoon issue was something to offend the Prophet. I remmeber 2 years back several bloggers whined when govt blocked BLOGGER.com in Pakistan. Tazeen might be one of them. Who knows?

    This banner has no comparison with Danish cartoon protest(even I disagree with Violent protests by Pakistanis). These women are just PROTESTING. FORGOD SAKE! try to understand. Tazeen can also come on roads and can start chanting against them. Why can’t she? do you also believe that Tazeen and you don;t have solid points against these women? if No then don’t argue.

    Whether I agree with these protectors or not ,these women have right to voice their opinion. I would rather add that these women should try to come in media and register their protest.Where is the tolerance now? Why can’t we listen our opponents? Why do we expect that everyone has to get agreed with us? is it not something called Fanaticism?


    explicitly state that women are usurping the rights of men by working and making women feel guilty of leaving their children

    IMO,It depends from woman to woman that how much she cares of her family. Living at home does not make one suppressed. Similarly working outside doesn’t make one powerful. Yeah if money matters only then it’s the different case. I already mentioned before that I don’t understand how working women feel happy to hear load of crap by strange men at office and don’t feel bad and starts whining if something is said at home? I don’t understand this hypocrisy. I don’t get what kind of dignity such women earn? I have worked in companies where women also work and I got chance to interact with them. Almost every woman used to make complain about men’s attitude towards them(sadly our society men are not good and we gotta admit that)but how men in home are more worst than men at a office? I don’t get it.


    but since you aren’t against women who work you should have supported tazeen’s stance which no where states that all women “should” work..

    Me and Tazeen agree with the banner that Job is not the solution of all evils


    but should a woman choose to work

    Certainly! if a Woman can manage everything properly then she should utilized her skills and education. Similarly husband should show responsibility and give respect to what his wife knows?I personally believe that its not kind of shame if you praise your wife’s traits infront of public or appreciate her infront of others because I personally believe that a wife needs her hubby’s attention or vice vesa. if a husband not realizing it then it’s not fair with the women. Both men and women should realize their responsibilities. Atlast both has to strive to save a relationship.

    I would rather add that even if a woman is not being able to go out of home then she can work from home as a freelancer but SHOULD NOT waste the talent


    the rest of the world should shutup as it is no concern of theirs.

    Why the heck the world should shutup? Be realistic! The world is not your home kitchen where you rule. you might be the Queen of your home but you might be a worthless element for rest of the world. So admit the fact and learn to face opponents. Not everyone out of home will agree with you. HEck, ppl don;t agree even if they are living under the roof. Actually Tazeen made a similar post on KMB and I disagree with her “request” to remove these banners. I am totally against it

  • Adnan Siddiqui – one word answer:
    Would you support a giant banner of one of the danish cartoons outside do talwar?
    a) yes
    b) no


  • one word answer:

    Rabia, please don’t dictate me. You are not at home.

    There is NO comparison between two. The cartoon was an offensive attempt. If these ladies try to mock working women by writing offensive words or making offensive cartoons then I will be the one who will go against them.

    Hope yo got the answer and will not repeat again and again and next time bring an appropriate example to prove your point.

    Thanks

  • My Dear ADNAN,

    These banners might be offensive to a large number of women.

    What is offensive to you may not be offensive to others and vice versa.

  • The term ‘offensive’ is relative.

    It varies person to person .

  • The banner is clearly offensive to women.

    Sorry, not protected by free speech.

    Move along.

  • “There is NO comparison between two. The cartoon was an offensive attempt. If these ladies try to mock working women by writing offensive words or making offensive cartoons then I will be the one who will go against them.”

    Most non-muslims wouldn’t find the danish cartoons offensive either. Clearly, they are offensive TO MUSLIMS. Since your nickname seems to be male, you aren’t really in a position to judge whether this banner was offensive to women or not. Sorry.

  • Man… it’s my birthday march 8th and this is just beyond depressing.

    If I had the money I’d fly to Kirachi and take those down myself.

  • This comment has been removed by the author.

  • there are some blogs one reads – such as mine – for the sheer brilliance of their content.

    there are some you read, such as pakspectator, for coming across absolutely crazy commenters.

    then there are tazeen’s which bring in both.

    mr. adnan siddique (aka my brothar from anothar mothar) – please please please keep on commenting. these silly women have no answers to your intellecutal gravitas. they think every place is their home kitchen, which everyone knows is a place where a woman can dictate whatever she wants without hearing any protests.

    these stupid women don’t realise that even a kitchen outside their homes are off limits to their bossiness.

    also, i would like to work in your office, where the women are happy to take crap from strange men. the women in my office really don’t take my crap that often, or even at all, and i am getting quite sick of it.

    “Sorry to burst your bubble but in reality a woman is abuse more by another woman. A woman is burnt by another woman(Saas). Its a woman who forces a son to marry another woman. It’s a woman try to trap a man despite of she knows he’s married. So,in reality women are mistreated more by other women. bitter but true.”

    i had to reprint this part of your comment because i loved it so much. i am worried though that you were forced to marry someone because your mother made you do it, and your wife takes offense from her boss but not from you, and now other women are tempting you even though they know you are married.

    dude! i know your feelings. my fiance gives me a lot of shit too, and my mother is running out of kerosene, as well as unburnt parts of her skin, to burn her anymore.

    i wish there was some way that us men could get back at such women. i wish some man could invent a way where we could grab a woman, preferably as a group, and insert our manliness in their domineering baby-holes. alas, no such way exists, otherwise we could move ahead of women in terms of mistreating other women. so far, all we have is grabbing asses in public places, and just between us bros, its not cutting it anymore for me.

    and as for rabia, screw her. she used to be in my school, and was best friends with my fiance, and both of them scored higher in class than us men, and then had the audacity to run faster than us as well. thankfully, she has left the country, so good riddance. now she can pollute the West.

    unfortunately, my fiance is still here and she regularly beats me up (verbally because i am still stronger than her, as all men should be and are) when she gets time off from burning my sisters with battery acid.

    man fuck these ho’s. don’t they realise that freedom of speech does not extend to the Holy Prophet? this tazeen anyways is part of the media, which is perhaps the reason why that woman dominated industry is refusing to cover these women on do talwar who are standing up for what is right.

    i for one felt hugely excited that women are shown their place through banners on a roundabout glorifying our magnificent phalluses.

    i just have one request bro… why don’t you have your own blog so that we can move out of the home kitchen that is this tripe infested blog and read some quality, testosterone dripping, gut ripping, erection inducing manliness.

    i love you man. in a TOTALLY homo way. visit me sometime.

  • I thought I was having some fun reading the comments and arguments until I read the final one…

    Karachi Khatmal –
    You are the Man… (And no, not in homo or any sort way).

    And ya, Tazeen, was just wondering, will these banners change anything? I mean, I’ve had Pakistani colleagues in my office and most of them think women should be at home. Few years back, there was an instance related to me where women weren’t allowed to run a marathon in Pakistan and one of them agreed to that argument. I dunno how many men in Pakistan believe in this crap but from the number of men I’ve come across, I think it’ll be a lot.

    Some of them however, are opressed by women like KK 🙂

  • Rabia,It would not be good if I and you repeat same thing again and again. I am quite clear in my view and don’t bring gender discrimination that I am a Man hence I can’t understand about women. It’s not only lame but gross assumption as well.
    I remember when govt of Pakistan banned blogspot then all “broad-minded” guys were whining that why blogspot was banned. If you personally asked me, a cartoon or few offensive words against my prophet are not shaking my belief, I am not going to quit Islam. Similarly if someone abuses my parents on road then i am not going to leave my parents. yes , what all I will do that I would go to these people and will ask the reason of such reaction and then will try to convince them with my points. I will not shot them dead without listening them. I will sure try to convince them coz I know i do have ability to talk to them Ye bacho k tarha nahi k rona shuru kardia. Aye samjh ms.Rabia?

    If you are not able to comprehend what I said then It’s not my fault. You are free to assume anything.

    @KarachiKhatmal:My friend, it seems you that bedbug bitten you very hard last night and you had to sleep on other side of the bed. May you spend more time among real people than blog friends so that you will be able to figure out realities and yeah..

    The way everyone responded me, I had believed that all these anti-banner girls(and guys!) have no solid reason to refute these women. Pls don’t curse others for your own mental ability to deal your opponents. It sounds very childish to compare one thing from other. I again say that Tazeen and Co should write in media with SOLID points that WHY these women are wrong and they are right.Tab maza aye ga! You can’t win a situation just by making noise. As they say in Urdu:

    -Jo garajtay hain wo Barastay Nahin

    – Khali Bartan sirf shor kartay hain

    so,please don’t act like an empty pot. I am quite neautral here and I am looking forward for such banners from Tazeen side on Karachi roads. I would love to hear what she thinks about but I would despise if she asks me to “SHUT UP coz I DON’t Like it!”. Emotional blackmailing nahi chaley gi aur Ye Laffazi bhe tumhara kuch bhala nahi karnay wali. *grin*

    have fun and I don’t have anything else to say.

  • Oh by the way, was it not Tazeen and you girls who were pretty much cheerish about Chaddi Movement in India and were willing same in Pakistan? Now this is called hypocrisy. You think you are free to protest and others are not. I bet if someone would have given the exmaple of cartoons that time then all of you were going to issue a fatwa of being “a Mullah”. Jahan apni bari aye tu wahan Taliban bhe bana sahi hay aur jahan dosray tu foran Modern.

    you guys are amazing. Simply Amazing! Surely, Ignorance is bliss. *shakes head*

  • someone posted following link on Tazen’s post @ Karachi meteoblog.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-412178/Nine-working-women-want-quit-housewives.html

    Tazeen,Rabia, and their sahelis like KarachiKhatamal and mr.Indian. friends,What happened to these “civilized” and “Western” women? why are they being so backward? Tazeen, yo have spent time in UK, u should try to figure it out, No?

    I wonder whether any of you is actually married? or is it just drawing room talks?just wondering. Jab west ki Naqal he karni hey tu sahi se naqal karni chahye na? 🙂

  • Ah Adnan,

    Your Jamati brain refuses to accept the simple freedom of speech argument. You either support freedom of speech at all counts or do not support it when it attacks the rights of a select group of people.

    I have checked with the ministry of social welfare, there is no NGO called Women and Family Commission registered. Its pretty easy to check it out because all the data is computerised now. It is definitely a group of miscreant men who want to guilt women into staying at home. There is no address or phone number given on the banners to actually check them out. NGOs usually do not operate that way.

  • and please stop posting dailymail links, its a trashy piece of shit. Also stop assuming that all women who visit this blog are single and have no responsibility. First of all, not everyone here is single and those who are single are very responsible people. Only a pea brained person can assume that being married equates to being responsible as well.

    KK,

    I feel sorry for you bro, yo are totally emasculated between your mom, sisters and your fiance. I feel for ya and would totaly understand if your go the other way with our BRATHER IN FAITH ADNAN

  • So where on earth is it written that only NGO’s can protest not galli mohallay k aurtain? you continue to amaze me with your intelligence Tazeen, really.


    t being married equates to being responsible as well.

    and where on earth I said that single women are not responsible?? Tazeen! calm down. Re-read what others say!

    Offending others and humiliating them is not going to make a credible person. That’s the old mantra that when people get no point to argue ,they start labeling them like Jamatis,Mullahs etc etc. Thanks for proving yourself what I already had assumed. But then you say yourself:


    Rantings of a mind that is reluctant to conform and not too keen on change

    enough said.

    have fun girl!

  • regarding the link, do you ever visit the post you make on metroblog? I just pasted one, the guy/girl even has given the references of Timesonline and Daily Telegraph. Now you are going to issue fatwa that all UK papers are piece of shit? You can do anything to “prove” your point. Have fun. I better let you enjoy you with your peers in your imaginary world. peace 🙂

  • I am blog rolling you.

  • Interesting 🙂

    I am glad to know that there are as much morons across the border,as there are here..lol..

    More power to you as you are not burning public property or creating mess (the way most protest).Instead,you are raising your protest in a civil way and I wonder why would Adnan have offense with that..

    Nimmy

  • @nimmy:these protesters also opted a civilized way(banners) to register their protest. They did not burn any property either hence they have rights to voice their opinion even we don’t like it. That;s the crux of my rants. Thanks

  • Hey Dumbass Adnan.

    It is offensive material; the fact that they are using peaceful means to convey contentious notions of societal roles of women remains irrelevant and redundant.

    The message besmirches the essence of what freedom of speech stands for.

  • I have often wondered and yet haven’t found any perfect reason why men wants women inside the house.. behind the veil..

    Why is that they are so afraid of feminine power?

    Why females are ousted out of religion.. when its a woman who can give birth.. its a woman who nurtures ?

    Do you have any answer ?

    Fear.. has a vile edge to it.. so does this gender bias.. And i have found that arguments have never ever changed anything!

    Blogrolling you 🙂

  • I hate to be the devil’s advocate here, but isn’t it all about perspective?

    I feel lucky to have been raised by a stay at home mom who was always there for me, instead of having to come home to house help.

    As a single working woman today, i would feel no shame in staying at home to look after my children, when that day comes.

    I think somewhere in the struggle to prove ourselves as equals to the ‘all important’ man, we have let go of the privileges that nature meant for us.

    And perhaps thats the commision’s perspective.

  • Subversive slogans are fairly pathetic way of getting the message across, and as you said, Subliminal mindfuck is an essential weaponry in the hands of a state to change the opinions and unfortunately they work.

  • Mahwish,

    Sorry to rain on your parade, but a stay at home mother who just cook food and raise children is a fairly new and bourgeoisie concept.

    History says that women have always worked for a living, its another debate if it was acknowledged or included in GDP. Even in earliest stages, men were hunters but it is the women who were gatherers and the transition from hunting age to agricultural age was only because of the skills women acquire while gathering edible vegetation and replanting what they thought was either tasty or useful. How can you deny your ancestors this credit.

    Even in this day & age, being a stay at home mother is an urban middle class phenomenon. Just step out of your bubble and you can find women in all poor communities working their asses off for marginal wages, for them, the debate is not about stepping out to work or not but the debate is getting any work which pays relatively better wages, its a given that they will work.

    This privilege as you have put it, is not natural but social and classist. Although I am no communist, I hate when people assume that what is natural state of being for them is also for the rest, the less privileged people.

  • YOU BITCHES!! CAN’T YOU CONTINUE YOUR FILTHY DISCUSSION WITHOUT MENTIONING THE CARTOONS WHOSE REMINDER IS ENOUGH TO DISTRESS MUSLIMS ALL OVER WORLD??? ARE YOUR SHITTY BRAINS SO DUMBED BY LICKING YOUR WESTERN GODS ASSES THAT YOU CANNOT FIND A SINGLE OTHER EXAMPLE FOR YOUR PATHETIC ARGUMENTS??THAT BITCH RABIA SHOULD COME OUT AND THEN WE WILL SEE WHAT WILL BE HANGING AT DO TALWAR!!

    OWNER OF BLOG…..REMOVE THAT BITCHE’S AND ALL OTHER COMMENTS MENTIONING CARTOONS WITHIN 48 HOURS. OTHERWISE WE WILL CALL A COUNTRY WIDE PROTEST AGAINST YOU AND DAWN.

  • Mahwish Sahiba, As long as there are females like you, the world should not lose hope for a better future generation. God bless you and your family.

  • REMOVE TH[E] [..] COMMENTS MENTIONING CARTOONS WITHIN 48 HOURS. OTHERWISE WE WILL CALL A COUNTRY WIDE PROTEST AGAINST YOU AND DAWN.

    Why stoop to their level though? Would protests achieve anything? Yes, it is extremely unfortunate that we have people here abusing, insulting and caricaturing the Noble Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to make political points, but just let them be…! That they have to resort to cheap jibes and slanders demonstrates the sheer vacuity of their ‘arguments’, so in its own way, it’s useful.

    And what’s with the name-calling?

    *sigh*

    Why can’t everyone just get along! 🙂

  • Are the forty eight hours up yet? I want to see the protest! Wah, first a law suit protest and now a country wide protest. You ARE going up places.

  • Why don’t these guys who put up these banners get a sex-change and make an example of themselves, if they want to preach how women should lead their lives ?

    May be if they give a really good example, that might even convince all the women and save them from the evil traps of modernity !!

    Somebody please go tell them.

  • Just to say I have linked to you – because the issue raised is not a Pakistani one – it has no borders really.

    BTW came by thru Banno.

    Keep writing!

  • Oh boy, you sure attract weirdos

    first lawsuit and now this?

    wah wah

  • Wow! I read this entire back-and-forth thingie. And it boggles my mind that there are people like Adnan out there who instead of condemning or atleast tacitly disagreeing with this condone such a thing.

    I think Adnan fails to see that his argument is quite circular in nature. Offensive banner…free speech…offensive cartoon…burn and pillage dolls of all Western leaders…interesting.

    I don’t want to get involved but I’m glad you’re allowing free speech on your blog, Tazeen by not moderating those who are for this and those who are against this.

  • read most of the comments…esp by dear Adnan wich I find hilarious to say the least. D dude is all kaanphused 2 say the least
    take on the issue…banner messages is illogical n idiotic.
    but yes, I do support the putting up of tht banner as do I d demand for them to be taken down
    just a single example….Hazrat Khadija was a working woman.

  • There are loads of banners up in Pak that most people ignore. Partly because they can’t read, and other than that they don’t care. Unless it offers free food, shelter and clothing.

  • shehryar, are you crazy? who is abusing the prophet? you are talking nonsense. My question was a way of asking Adnan if he actually supported free speech or not (he does not). You sound a little nuts.

    This is my last comment, so just relax.

  • by the way, Tazeen has nothing to do with my comments on her blog and I feel terrible that she is being threatened as a result of a simple question that I asked. feel free to delete my comments 🙁

    how depressing

  • Adnan –

    Please give me examples of the following:

    1) Freedom of speech
    2) Freedom of speech that is coercion in disguise.

    Let’s deal with your mentality shall well.

    Cool – Please ask Allah’s forgiveness for hurling abuses at women.

    -Zoobee

  • “Yes, it is extremely unfortunate that we have people here abusing, insulting and caricaturing the Noble Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to make political points, but just let them be…!”

    What is so noble about women being not allowed to be treated as equals?

    Remember, what is noble to you may be extremely disgusting for the other!

    The trick is to be able to uphold one’s supposed morals not matter what! Especially, if the offense if verbal or in the form of a caricature.

    -Zoobee

    p.s. please do not respond with “women and men are not equal due to anatomical differences” or the classic “women are more emotional than are men!”

  • I feel lucky to have been raised by a stay at home mom who was always there for me, instead of having to come home to house help.

    Mahwish,

    Does this then mean any or all of the following:

    1) Children raised by working women are unlucky?

    2) Women, that are mothers, who choose to work, whether it is out of necessity or will, are undermining mental health of their children?

    3) Should a woman’s right to choose, which in this case is to choose both motherhood AND the career, should be limited simply based on some religious/traditionally inspired expectation?

    Instead of raising boys to be better and sharing partners, fathers (who help maintain a balanced parental envrionment for their kids), brothers, husbands, it is rather ironic that ALL this energy is spent on limiting choices for women.

    -Zoobee

  • This privilege as you have put it, is not natural but social and classist. Although I am no communist, I hate when people assume that what is natural state of being for them is also for the rest, the less privileged people.

    Tez,

    Yup – a classic example of how religion limits one’s capacity of acknowledging other factual possibilities. It is ironic for these dweebs, those who tow the line of tribal traditionalism guised in “Allah’s Edict”, fail to see the hypocrisy of their holier-than-thou actions.

    Keep up the vigilance! You always can count on my support!

    -Zoobee

  • how depressing

    Rabia – beyond depressing – actually I would respond with protest against the protest. It’s about time morons are given taste of their own medicine.

    -Zoobee

  • OWNER OF BLOG…..REMOVE THAT BITCHE’S AND ALL OTHER COMMENTS MENTIONING CARTOONS WITHIN 48 HOURS. OTHERWISE WE WILL CALL A COUNTRY WIDE PROTEST AGAINST YOU AND DAWN.

    Cool – go khatnafy yourself! It is the likes of you that have made a mockery of a religion that at had produced great minds such as Averroes and Avecina. You and your kind are cowards who while being afraid to think for selves feel the need to shut those who point out the stupid ways of peeps like you.

    I dare you and your kind to respond reasoning with reasoning!

    -Zoobee

  • YOU BITCHES!! CAN’T YOU CONTINUE YOUR FILTHY DISCUSSION WITHOUT MENTIONING THE CARTOONS WHOSE REMINDER IS ENOUGH TO DISTRESS MUSLIMS ALL OVER WORLD??? ARE YOUR SHITTY BRAINS SO DUMBED BY LICKING YOUR WESTERN GODS ASSES THAT YOU CANNOT FIND A SINGLE OTHER EXAMPLE FOR YOUR PATHETIC ARGUMENTS??THAT BITCH RABIA SHOULD COME OUT AND THEN WE WILL SEE WHAT WILL BE HANGING AT DO TALWAR!!

    hahahahahahahahahaha…

    this is the funniest comments thread in pakistani history…

    hahahahahahahhahahahahaha…

    don’t you BITCHES get it? the Prophet needs you to be insulted in order for his honour to be protected.

    OWNER OF BLOG…..REMOVE THAT BITCHE’S AND ALL OTHER COMMENTS MENTIONING CARTOONS WITHIN 48 HOURS. OTHERWISE WE WILL CALL A COUNTRY WIDE PROTEST AGAINST YOU AND DAWN.

    yeah, fuck dawn bro. that’s the spirit. let’s break some shit up. why don’t you and i break our own computers in protest, for having the audacity to even display such vile comments…

    YEAH! FUCK FUCK FUCK BITCHES BITCHES FUCK! YEAH! REMOVE THIS COMMENT FUCK YEAH!

    somedays i wish manto was alive and saw this. imagine the shit he would have churned out then…

  • I wonder where all the moderates have gone off to?

    There are always 2 sides to a story. One is yours and one is mine. How do you get to decide which one is right?

    I admit I’m a working woman and aware of the advantages/privileges that come with it. But, if i give this up tomorrow to raise a family, does that make me any less of a woman? Is proving myself in the outside work field the only claim to my fame?

    Ask the millions of women who have to leave their homes & children to work for a few rupees per day, whether they really want to do it? Or, would they rather have the “man” of the house do his job and make enough to support his family.

    The point is, I do not say women do not have an equal right to work, but there are those who feel they do not need that sort of “privilege” to prove themselves and they should have the right to chant a slogan or put up a banner.

    To each his/her own, even if its their bubble!

  • o my &^#*&@*#^@
    whenever i come here i see such brain farts and vomits that i forget why i am here for

  • There are always 2 sides to a story. One is yours and one is mine. How do you get to decide which one is right?

    Aside this being a bit of a coup out – it’s akin to “I believe in Unicorns cuz I believe” – No, not really – in case of equality for women, there is only one side, and it is ALL about freedom to choose. You must then wonder, huh? isn’t choosing to work all about denouncing those who don’t? Again, no, not at all. Contrary to popular belief, what makes it a freedom of choice for a woman is the following:

    1) To be able to free (of religious or traditional pressures) to choose to work
    2) To be able to free to choose to NOT to work
    3) To be able to free to choose to work AND be a mother

    What riles the crowd today is woman’s independence to choose, not necessarily the choices. Men are afraid to lose authorities granted a the behest of tribal traditionalism – women are afraid to having to assume new roles which they perhaps were either never trained for…

    Providing economic stability plays a major role in raising a family. In today’s economic climate, for most cases, it takes both parents to earn a secure a future of their children. Remember, a woman must be free to choose, without ANY cultural/religious/tribal coercion…

    -Zoobee

  • mahwish,
    your comments sound nice and tolerant, etc, if one lived in a void and not in a country where gils were currently being prevented from going to school in one part; or on a comment thread where one side (the side that you want us urban feminazis to show more compassion and tolerance to) was not threatening to kill us. But whatever, more power to you


  • I wonder where all the moderates have gone off to?

    *Hibernated*-grin

  • “Yes, it is extremely unfortunate that we have people here abusing, insulting and caricaturing the Noble Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to make political points, but just let them be…!”

    What is so noble about women being not allowed to be treated as equals?

    Remember, what is noble to you may be extremely disgusting for the other!

    Boobee/Zoobee, you illiterate moron, if you took your head out of the clouds long enough, you’d probably realise that I did not comment on whether the banners and the sentiments behind them were noble or evil. The commendation of nobility was ONLY with reference to the person and character of the Noble Prophet Muhammad – if any pathetic loser finds that “disgusting”, then that’s their problem and their loss.

  • shehryar, are you crazy? who is abusing the prophet? you are talking nonsense. My question was a way of asking Adnan if he actually supported free speech or not (he does not). You sound a little nuts.

    Rabia, I apologise if I misunderstood you. My intent certainly wasn’t malevolent; since I was not the only one who got the wrong end of the stick, suboptimal phrasing on your part might have something to do with it. With respect, I do find it outrageous (and unconscionable) that a banner making a socio-political point that you (and many others) disagree with could be even remotely comparable to those vile and evil attacks on the Prophet.

    Anyway, enough of spoiling an apology by making excuses – I am sorry for the offence caused.

    This is my last comment, so just relax.

    It wasn’t, though 🙂 And I am pretty relaxed anyway, thank you!

  • I don’t like fights. 🙁

    Waisay I wouldn’t want my wife to work. ‘Cuz then that would mean I’m not doing my job well.
    And then there are certain things only a man should do. And certain things only women should do.
    =|

  • @Tazeen

    Wading through all these male chauvinist comments,I realized that we women still can’t claim to say that being a woman is one of the best thing that has happened to us. In such a scenario, there is no hope for female empowerment.

    Keep up the good work.

  • @Mahwish

    There is a small, but powerful undertone of wisdom in your comment (I doubt most people will get it). But outside of that, you can’t play devil’s advocate for offensive, vitriolic speech that besmirches the value and freedoms of free speech.

    There is no denying the fact that a women has intrinsic and inalienable right to work (fend for themselves) absent intrinsic characteristics of the roles of women.

  • @uglyduckling91 said…

    “”there are certain things only a man should do. And certain things only women should do.””

    Dont live in false illusions .

    Wake up.

  • Wow.. wat blog and wat comments! Tazeen, I had predicted at the end of 2008, that within two years Pakistan will be completely Talibanized. Not that I want it. Just my reading from the situation. No one had even heard of Swat deal at that time (http://www.drishtikone.com/?q=blog/review-2008-predictions-and-new-one-2009).

    I believe now that it might happen earlier than that. This is serious stuff… and passion of the likes of KK doesn’t help either.

    -d.

  • I always wonder one thing…on one side women are asking for “equal” rights and on the other they want quota system. Quota system in uni, in buses,parliament,jobs etc…I think its time for them to consider what they actually want.

    My stance is if “one’s” family agrees for a lady to work then there should be an environment for her to work.

    one more thing…I think there should be a quota for boys/men in medical colleges so that there are almost equal number of male doctors as well as female doctors :)…what u guys have to say on this.

  • @ MAK the quota system is needed BECAUSE we’ve lived through centuries of male domination. And there have to be measures that cunter the effect the hundereds of years of conditioning.
    on your second point,, why cant boyus just study and get admission on merit? They are not the ones suffering from any kind of descrimination.
    Though I do believe that female med. students who just dont practice after getting married should just as well not waste a seat.

  • Desh.. KK is being sarcastic

    Although I don’t agree with views from banner but I will say that banning is just plain wrong.

  • Tazeen

    you sure as hell attract a lot of weirdo and waila people on your blog.

  • Well women have the right to do whatever they want, but we have to make sure that our culture doesn’t end up like american culture where kids seem to get no attention from either one of their parents.

  • Urgh

    women should stay at home, preferably bare feet and pregnant.

  • i’ll assume that @Sardar was being sarcastic. haha.

    read the post, and read all the comments (okay, not all. but most), but this struck me…

    no one mentions that probably men should help raise kids too. there are families that thrive on the woman’s earning, and i see no wrong in that. i dont understand why the point of men being equally responsible to their child’s upbringing has not been brought up (apologies to sound a bit incoherent, but i come from a society that largely follows monogamy – on the face of it – and both parents theoretically have equal rights and duties, as i see it – though, this is not always the case, but i believe in the equality of things).

    why don’t people subliminally target men, who, from what i see, spend close to zilch with their children when compared to the mothers?

    then again, i must also put forth my belief that yes, men do seem to get around to working a bit more naturally, and women do seem to be far better at raising children. but as far as i’ve seen, and grown to appreciate, the latter’s job is much tougher, and a woman who can balance her work with her household chores, is nothing short of super-human. then again, i think it’s best that both parents pitch in with moderate working hours, and equally share raising the child.

    my mom works too, as a hobby, to keep herself occupied, now that both her kids have grown up. when i was a child, she was a housewife, and well, she excelled at it. i would certainly have not liked to have seen her less, and i guess that well, since my dad worked and provided in abundance, my mother had no urge to work, what with having her hands full with two nut-cases for children!

    but that does not mean that she stayed at home because she felt guilty that she would be ignoring her children if she worked. no. she just didnt feel the need to work then. had she wanted to work, maybe dad would have taken care of us by staying at home full-time. but they both were good at what they chose, and at that time, unable to switch roles successfully (surely, mom could not have earned as much as dad did, and on the same note, even dad agrees that mom was waaaay too good at handling the home and the kids! so both were equal!), and thus, everything was perfect.

    harmony can exist if roles are meted out to each sex. but (and this is something the retards posting comments above must learn), harmony can also exist when both sexes share their onuses. the time of segmented roles is dead. today, each sex can do either task. yes, only the woman can bear a child out of pregnancy, and is genetically better suited (emotionally, and otherwise) to handle children at home (and there’s certainly no shame in it!), but well, men can do her job in managing the home too, in much the same way as she can do theirs!

    ps. apologies for the long comment (if needed).

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